Registered: Jan 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 982

I'm always curious how writers work. I know everybody does it differently.

How do you start? Then what comes next? How does it proceed from a title or a little riff or melody fragment and grow into a complete song?

Is there a consistent pattern? Is there one way that works better for you in most cases?

I know we don't all do it the same way. If it works for you, great. If you can share it with us, I'm sure we'll all learn a lot.

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Registered: May 2005
Location: Poland
Posts: 190

Okay, this is my way.

Stage 1:
I start with two short rhyming lines. Almost always. They often come up I have no idea where from, with a melody. They have no much meaning in them, just sound good. Today on the street I came up with:
"Something
No tear
You just hear what you wanna hear"
("Something" has a melody but the lyric will be obviously completed.)

Stage 2:
I think of a subject. Who/what can this be about? Not much "songwriting" here, just thinking of something to express. That can still happen on the same street, it's a good place to think.

Stage 3:
I explain the subject to the listener. That's usually the first verse but it can also be completing the chours first. That happens when I get to sit and write down or feel like training my memory.

Stage 4:
I complete the song to give it some verses, bridges and stuff. That's usually at home, on my PC, with rhymezone.com always opened.

Stage 5, optional:
I take some software and work on the melody. Usually I just sing it a bit to myself while writing to keep it rhytmic, but that melody may have been already used somewhere else.

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Registered: Jan 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 982

Here is one of the ways I often work:

I start with either a title or a phrase or lyric line.

Next, I just sort of let that title or phrase roll around in my head, maybe even for a few days, revisiting it as I drive to work or in other idle moments.

Roll around in my ears: I also like to speak the words out load to hear what they sound like, trying it different ways, emphasizing different syllables. Then I sing it, trying out different phrasings, different notes.

I also let my mind wander on the meaning of the line/title. What does it suggest? Is there a story to be told? What do I want to say pertaining to this line? Do I have stong opinions on the subject? Are there multiple meanings/multiple stories that could be developed and if so, which one do I want to work on first?

Often I'll work on a story line for awhile and realize it's not working out. So I'll go back and try to develop one of the other meanings.

Once I've started that process, whether it goes on for days, week or longer, or as short as 5-10 minutes, usually something will come: a second line or a melody or a riff or a rhythm.

Lots of times verses will appear easily, almost writing themselves. Let's say at this point I now have 2 verses that I'm more or less happy with and a weak chorus. I also have a melody for the chorus, but no melody for the verse, and to be real, let's say the chorus melody needs serious work.

Now we have something to work with. It's not just a blank page anymore. My mindset at this point is that nothing is sacred. Anything can be replaced, even the initial idea. I just let the ideas take me where they want to go. If the story takes a left turn that renders verse one unnecessary or even confusing, I go with it, knowing I can always write a new verse one.

Since at any point in the process, I can decide that I liked an earlier version better, I keep everything I write. To keep all these changes from getting lost, I use a Word Processor. Usually my very first ideas are jotted down on paper. But not too long after that I start typing on my computer. Anytime there's a change of direction, I simply start a new page (same document). Since my lyrics typically don't take more than one page per song, I end up with one page per draft, making it easy to scroll up and see where I was going before taking the left turn.

Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees, that is, I get so involved in making it rhyme (and other minutae) that I lose track of the bigger picture - the meaning of the song. That's when I like to do a little exercise.

In this exercise I simply explain what the song is about, out loud. Then I write that explanation down. Of course, sometimes in the process of this exercise I come face to face with the reality that I'm not really sure what this song is about. Good to know. Keep talking. You may find that you need to make a decision: is the song about A or B? Maybe I should be doing this upfront.

Often the process of explaining to myself what the song is about, in a conversational tone, gives me lines I can use in the song. Sometimes just the explaination in English makes better lyrics than what I have.

Before I'm done I may explore several different meanings, different stories, experiment with chords, rewrite the song from several different points of view (me, her, you, etc). At some point I think I'm done with the guts of it. The story is told, it makes sense.

Do I still feel the melody in the chorus is weak? If so, now I can stop focusing on the lyrics, the chords and the verses and assume they're all great, for now. Now I want to focus on the chorus' melody. You may want to do this on a different day, starting fresh. If you can record what you have so far (verses only), that can be a great help. All you need is a rough guitar/vocal or piano/vocal recording, nothing high quality.

Then listen to it, not intensely, not critically, not focusing on it, but more like letting it play as a background or as in a daydream. The idea is that the verse will lead you to a chorus. Sometimes the first note is the hardest and once you get that, all the rest fall into place more or less easily. In this case, we have a first note. We have a whole verse of notes. The last phrase of the verse should lead us to the first note, at least, of the chorus. Hopefully, this will give you some new options for the chorus.

Then I set it aside for a day or more. Usually when I come back to it with fresh ears, I find a couple of easy, minor improvements to the lyrics.

Then I try to sing it. Here's where you can find and fix problems. One of my frequent issues is writing too many syllables per line. It reads fine, but it's h*ll on a singer to make it sound good. Too many consonants and not enough vowels is another common issue.

Another thing you'll learn from singing it is if you left space for the singer to breath. The singer has to breathe somewhere and his/her phrasing will be affected by where the breaths fall.

One more note: the song has to breathe, too. Here's where you might notice there are not enough spaces in between the singing. Maybe the song needs an extra measure between verses or some other musical space where there is no singing.

Hopefully, you'll make improvements each time you listen, to the lyrics, the melody, the chords, the rhythm, etc.

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Registered: Mar 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 486

OK, here's how I do it...

Just sitting down with the intention of writing a song will not often work for me.

But sometimes I get a little melody in my head that keeps "playing" and I know I haven't heard it before. I usually do start with this melody and build upon it. The song flows pretty easy from this "seed."

Other times I may have a phrase in my mind that gets the ball rolling, but more oftern than not, it starts with melody.

Lyrics are harder for me; it's not that I'm not good with words, but my lyrics often come out sounding contrived unless they're authentically felt. Most of my "meaningful" lyrics have come from being in love, or from getting dumped -- strong emotions on opposite ends of the spectrum -- but if something I'm feeling tends to fit the melody I've come up with, I go with it. I try to include imagery in the lyrics to add dimension to the song -- even if my words don't mean something specific or clear, it's cool if they cause the listeners to conjure pictures in their minds. In fact, sometimes I prefer if the lyrics are vague or ambiguous, so they can perhaps mean something different to each listener. This may be the most mechanical part of my process, since I usually take my "starting" lyrics and back them off into vagueness.... (does that even make sense?)

From that point, it's just tweaking and arranging (based on playing it on a keyboard and singing), and deciding the instrumentation of the song.

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MellowDMaker

~Life Rocks!~

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 2002

I know I've said some of this before - but when one gets older, one starts repeating oneself...


I know I've said some of this.....



I used to start from a guitar riff or chord progression first, and then waited - and waited - for inspiration in the lyric department to hit me (WHAM!) . I might have sung notes over the chord progression, but I found that truly limited the melodic range.

It wasn't until I began collaborating with someone who wrote lyrics and setting music to her words, that I realized that perhaps I was doing things derriere-backwards, and maybe I should think about the importance of the lyrics BEFORE settling into a music mode.

So now, I start with a lyric idea - I must have some words down, and a general "shape" to the lyric itself (rhyme scheme, meter, cadence, etc) before I'll even consider working on the music.
Like you Dan, I keep several versions of the lyric on Word - I never get rid of earlier versions - there might have been something good there I shouldn't get rid of - and it's also interesting to see how my mind worked, and the steps I took to arrive at the final version.

As to where the idea for lyrics come from - it could be anywhere - Love, friends, incidents, philosophizing...What has been really helpful to me is the Ultimate Challenge. It gets my mind to work in different ways than the norm when it comes to lyrics. And time constraints of a week to finish up a lyric really push me - also, I like having "assignments" - That way, I don't feel like I'm floundering around for a topic. There will be a topic, AND a set number of syllables, or letters that can be used, or lines, or rhyme schemes - anything to shake things up a bit.

When taking voice lessons, a teacher said "Don't touch the guitar when you work on the melody. Just sing the words first" - and that is another change that has worked for me. I'll record the melody line by line, honing and refining each one, until it sings nicely. Then I'll work back and forth between the words and melody, to make sure everything is copacetic. It's only then that I'll pick up the guitar and find the chords and find the little riffs and embellishments that will help to make a complete song.

Voila!

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: US
Posts: 4

It's funny. I start with the main music phrase (chords tied together more than likely) and 90% of the time the melody is already coming as I play. The other times, I record it really quickly, burn a CD and listen in the car. Then the melody comes out.

The problem I have is that if I only have one section (the main one for instance) and I set it aside, it's often hard to build onto it. I try choruses or breaks and it sounds disjointed like nailing a wooden section of wall onto a brick building.

So, consequently I have alot of song fragments that I like but that need some help to finish.

Hey, it's better than nothing! And it's fun.

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1

My method

Hello all,
I’m a beginner to songwriting, being that I’ve only written one song in its entirety. Considering it’s my first, though, I think that I did a fine job good. I find writing lyrics very easy while developing the music and melody I find a bit more difficult. Consequently, I have a very great number of poems but only one song a couple riffs. I wrote a certain poem which I really liked and which really came from strong emotion, and those are always the best. I also like making up random riffs on my guitar and once I made one which really had a ring to it and which stuck with me. It was on only one string (#2) and only 3 notes. I then added string #3 and shortly thereafter I was using the full spectrum of the fingerboard in a slow, sweet, and simple melody, all stemming from the first three notes. I then figured that these lyrics which I had written earlier would be nice with the melody I had just made and I put them together, with no real modifications. My bridge, or chorus, for it is somewhat ambiguous to me as to which it is, came easily and I was able to make it match with my lyrics. After I had played it a few times and was fine tuning it I added a finale, which retarded the end and came to a soft and gentle close. Of course I will need to get some objective opinions on the song and maybe adjust things thereafter, if needed.
Though I am still developing my method of song writing, I think that the first step will nearly always be the lyrics. I see the lyrics as the root of the song. The poem radiates feelings, auras which the author interprets and transforms into a musical medley. I greatly enjoy writing music and this forum should boost me along.
God bless you all!

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